Can A Society Exist...

Think about this. "In your view, can a society exist without laws?"

Comments

  • No they Can Not_________There will always be some form of rules/laws for people to abide by.
  • Yes & No

    Aparently, BR no longer believes in heaven. I'm sorry to hear that. I mean obviously you don't need laws in heaven because "God". And obviously, God created the first humans without giving them any kind of law.

    The answer is Yes if we are talking about a society of evolved humans. Sometimes the law is a crutch because people believe that as long as they abide by the LETTER of the law then they can still do dirt. People turn into lawyers, finding loop holes and technicalities. People shouldn't have to be told how to be good people. But when you tell them it's still a human perspective and why couldn't they naturally have the same?

    If everyone had parents teaching them and passing down, by tradition, morals and values (which is where this should come from instead of a 3rd party) they would not need a 3rd party telling them the same thing and adding consequences. Please understand. When you tell someone not to do something, if they didn't have the idea in their heads before, you're planting that idea, like a seed.

    Thou shalt not commit murder.

    I've never really told my kids this before. It never needed to be said. So if I said it then it would only betray the fact that **I**, their father, is thinking about murder, not them. If children are truly innocent then putting ideas in their heads can be a big problem. And the fact that society has rules that come from someone who doesn't love you and doesn't care about your survival creates a "black market" for crime because we know all these illegal ways to have fun and make money and "survive" (most of it boils down to survival) and in many cases society's rules go to an extreme and make the situation worse.

  • Look at the war on drugs.

    If you had decriminalized drugs a long time ago... imagine drugs are the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Poisonous, but people still do it. Does telling them not to stop them? Of course not. In fact, for many people it makes it "Cool". And it promotes this "bad boy", "rebel", thing that people are attracted to. Or speeding. People violate the speed limit constantly. They only slow down based on their probability of getting caught. So it's not even the rule that doesn't anything. It's the consequences. But the consequences of getting into an accident are worse than a ticket. But not as much if you have insurance. Toss out insurance and the speed limit and there would be less accidents, not more. Matter of fact, take out the speedometer entirely. I've driven without one before for months. Never got a speeding ticket in that time. Why? Because it made me more careful.

    The things we do to control people often backfire because it pushes against the natural instinct to be free.

    But if you inspire people to love each other and to care about each other's safety and well being then no, you don't need laws. You need laws for when people don't care. If you can inspire people to do good the way the superstitious ideas of gods inspire people to pay 10% of their income, then no... laws would not be necessary.

  • Paul calls the law a "school master" (teacher). When you graduate you shouldn't need the teacher anymore because it should be part of your nature. Telling me not to murder anyone wouldn't make a difference. I'm not going to do it because its not in my nature. If it was, then telling me probably wouldn't stop me as long as I felt the motive to do it was more important than the consequences.

    And Yeshua was right when he talked about the tree being known by its fruit. You can tell a lot about a parent by their children. Why? Because their children learn how to be humans from observing their parents. It doesn't come from some outside mystical law. If the parents are living right the children will likely follow. If they see their parents miserable then they're going to try and live differently. It's that simple. Our children live based on their judgment of us; not some book. Countless Christians think that if they just take their kids to church every week they'll be better people. No, its more about how you act outside of church.

    So we often pretend that all these extra things are what we need when reality they don't make that much difference. Sinners have a whole big about "the wages of sin" being death. Do yall stop sinning though? No. You just sin and ask forgiveness. Maybe you think twice before doing it but to be honest, since you do have a conscience, you would have thought twice anyway. But when you can get forgiveness from God that ultimately means you can override your conscience because you believe God will forgive you. And so Christians don't have an evolutionary method of getting rid of bad behavior. They do it, their kids see it, they ask forgiveness, their kids see they too can ask forgiveness, and everyone becomes a lawyer. If God cannot even stop Christians, the believers, from sinning, then why do believers think they're going to heaven to live in a place without sin??

    Uh... you do know that if yall sinners are allowed to enter you will still sin because it's in your nature? There's no magic wand that God has to make you stop sinning. If he had that wand he'd have used it from the beginning. And it was more important that humans have free will than to be sin free so if you believe you were created then accept that this is what you were created to be. If you want to stop sinning you have to choose to stop. You have to change your character and stop wanting to sin. People get addicted to sin and use their addiction as an excuse. Or worse, they use their humanity as an excuse as if they don't believe that human shell was hand crafted by a perfect being.

    We're all different because, even though we live often by the same laws, we all had different parents. So like snowflakes, the conditions are never exactly the same.
  • edited February 18
    ZealotX wrote: »
    Yes & No

    Aparently, BR no longer believes in heaven. I'm sorry to hear that. I mean obviously you don't need laws in heaven because "God". And obviously, God created the first humans without giving them any kind of law.

    **********************

    Lol Lol, hey Zee..... You know what, you are OBSESSED with GOD, I bet'cha he's flattered by your obsession with him.
    For you everything returns back to GOD; every conversation, majority of your thought process center's on GOD. I don't think you realize that about yourself. Lol

    There will always be a set of rules/laws to govern people. No humans will ever evolve to the point of Not Needing rules. However, once we're removed from of our fragile human state where we move to the realm of heavenly body inhabitants, I don't know if they'll be laws, but, there will be rules to abide by.

  • ^^^^^^^^
    ZealotX wrote: »
    Yes & No

    Aparently, BR no longer believes in heaven. I'm sorry to hear that. I mean obviously you don't need laws in heaven because "God". And obviously, God created the first humans without giving them any kind of law.

    ********************

    Truth is, he did give them his Law/RULE____ AND IT WAS___ from any other tree in this garden you can partake of, but, the "Tree of Acknowledge" you May NOT eat from.

    Sounds like a LAW to me!
  • BR.

    So you don't think God is relevant to a society existing without rules? As far as I'm concerned I feel like you invoked God by dealing in absolutes.

    Believing that a society cannot exist without laws means either that the people are created without the basic ability to survive without being told what to do. That doesn't sound like they were created perfect to me. If I make a car that cannot drive without wheels its only a problem if I don't give you the wheels.

    Which one of you had to be told to love your newborn child? Which one of you had to be taught how to love your own child?

    Having a law means being told not to do things you should already know not to do. For some reason I don't think someone had to tell you that it was wrong to steal. The law applies consequences for stealing. If you need consequences to keep you from stealing then that doesn't make you a good person. It just makes you a person who doesn't want to get caught. The law doesn't stop you from doing anything. The speed limit didn't determine how fast I drove to work. It just reminded me the top speed recommended for the best chance of safety.

    So what then? Are there going to be jails and prisons in heaven? Is there going to be a criminal justice system in the clouds? Or do you simply populate it (hence: the judgement) with naturally good people who have no desire to do evil to each other and who will love and protect each other like one big family?

  • @basicreasoning

    If not eating the fruit was the law, then was it, at the time, lawful or unlawful to smoke? Pee on the floor? Public nudity? Stealing? Murder? Etc.?

    If all those things were against the law then Adam and Eve would have to be told all those things. If you give someone the rules you're creating a system. Systems can be exploited.
  • ZealotX wrote: »
    BR.

    So you don't think God is relevant to a society existing without rules? As far as I'm concerned I feel like you invoked God by dealing in absolutes.

    Believing that a society cannot exist without laws means either that the people are created without the basic ability to survive without being told what to do. That doesn't sound like they were created perfect to me. If I make a car that cannot drive without wheels its only a problem if I don't give you the wheels.

    Which one of you had to be told to love your newborn child? Which one of you had to be taught how to love your own child?

    Having a law means being told not to do things you should already know not to do. For some reason I don't think someone had to tell you that it was wrong to steal. The law applies consequences for stealing. If you need consequences to keep you from stealing then that doesn't make you a good person. It just makes you a person who doesn't want to get caught. The law doesn't stop you from doing anything. The speed limit didn't determine how fast I drove to work. It just reminded me the top speed recommended for the best chance of safety.

    So what then? Are there going to be jails and prisons in heaven? Is there going to be a criminal justice system in the clouds? Or do you simply populate it (hence: the judgement) with naturally good people who have no desire to do evil to each other and who will love and protect each other like one big family?
    So you don't think God is relevant to a society existing without rules? As far as I'm concerned I feel like you invoked God by dealing in absolutes.
    **********************
    I didn't say anything about GOD, I initially answered the question that was posed and that question did NOT reference GOD at all,,,,as I said to you before........You Sir, is OBSESSED with GOD, apparently God dwells in your every thought.

    Pause:
    [/quote]Zee
    Believing that a society cannot exist without laws means either that the people are created without the basic ability to survive without being told what to do. That doesn't sound like they were created perfect to me. If I make a car that cannot drive without wheels its only a problem if I don't give you the wheels.
    ********************
    Your argument is FLAWED, people were not created perfect....period!

    I initially thought I would take each of your paragraphs and respond accordingly but____Clearly I'm not winded like you.
    Sorry to disappoint you, I wish I could be full of words like you..

    Again I will repeat my original comment. I do Not think a Society can exist without Laws___By the way people that resent 'restrictions'
    of any kind are usually___ the very people that object to rules and laws....that COULD ALSO be the reason way you're an ATHEIST!
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